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	<title>perez-fox.com &#187; design: packaging</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.perezfox.com/category/design-packaging/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.perezfox.com</link>
	<description>design and branding from Prescott Perez-Fox</description>
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		<title>World Cup 2010 Poster</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/19/world-cup-2010-poster/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/19/world-cup-2010-poster/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 17:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[national identities]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[typography]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[posters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[soccer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[type]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[world cup]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I am sad that I won&#8217;t be in England to watch this year&#8217;s world cup (having been there in 2002 and 2006 for most of the tourney) I am pleased to see the posters with the calendar and fixtures. Not much to say, really. Big, bright, type crammed together in an all-countries-of-the-world-coming-together sort of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2010/05/picture_12_1.png" alt="World Cup Poster" /></p>
<p>While I am sad that I won&#8217;t be in England to watch this year&#8217;s world cup (having been there in 2002 and 2006 for most of the tourney) I am pleased to see the posters with the calendar and fixtures. </p>
<p>Not much to say, really. Big, bright, type crammed together in an all-countries-of-the-world-coming-together sort of way. It works.</p>
<p>Check out the full post on <a target="_blank" href="http://www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2010/may/world-cup-calendar-poster">Creative Review »</a></p>
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		<title>Pantone Cosmetics Concept</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/05/pantone-cosmetics-concept/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/05/pantone-cosmetics-concept/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 17:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[brands & branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pantone Cosmetics Concept. Related PostsNo Related Post]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://lovelypackage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/pantone.jpg" alt="Pantone" width="450" height="349"/></p>
<p><a href='http://lovelypackage.com/pantone-cosmetics-concept/'>Pantone Cosmetics Concept</a>.</p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>No Related Post</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Auténtico Tequila Alacrán</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/04/autentico-tequila-alacran/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/04/autentico-tequila-alacran/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 22:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tequila]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TheDieline.com: Auténtico Tequila Alacrán » Related PostsFUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism (1)The Royal Burger (1)Honest Tea Not So Honest (1)Biodegradable Packaging for McDonald&#8217;s? (0)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/alacran.jpg" alt="Alacrán" width="320" height="400"></p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2010/05/auténtico-tequila-alacrán.html">TheDieline.com: Auténtico Tequila Alacrán »</a></p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/15/fuse-conference-day-2-optimism/" title="FUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism">FUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/14/the-royal-burger/" title="The Royal Burger">The Royal Burger</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/09/29/honest-tea-not-so-honest/" title="Honest Tea Not So Honest">Honest Tea Not So Honest</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/03/22/biodegradable-packaging-for-mcdonalds/" title="Biodegradable Packaging for McDonald&#8217;s?">Biodegradable Packaging for McDonald&#8217;s?</a> (0)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>San Gretti&#8217;s Signature Slices</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/29/san-grettis-signature-slices/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/29/san-grettis-signature-slices/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1707</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TheDieline.com: Package Design: San Gretti&#8217;s Signature Slices. Related PostsNo Related Post]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.thedieline.com/.a/6a00d8345250f069e20133ecfa2fda970b-800wi" alt="San Gretti's" width="450" height="293"></p>
<p><a href='http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2010/04/san-grettis-signature-slices.html'>TheDieline.com: Package Design: San Gretti&#8217;s Signature Slices</a>.</p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>No Related Post</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Breukelen Gin</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/29/breuckelen-gin-packaging-of-the-world-creative-package-design-archive-and-gallery/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/29/breuckelen-gin-packaging-of-the-world-creative-package-design-archive-and-gallery/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Breuckelen Gin &#124; Packaging of the World Related PostsNo Related Post]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src='http://www.perezfox.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/hellobreuckelen-01.jpg' alt='Breuckelen Gin' width="450" height="337"></p>
<p><a href='http://www.packagingoftheworld.com/2010/04/breuckelen-gin.html?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+packagingsoftheworld+%28Packagings+of+the+World%29&#038;utm_content=Google+Reader'>Breuckelen Gin | Packaging of the World</a></p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>No Related Post</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Packaging Student Work: Veronica Stark</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/28/packaging-student-work-veronica-stark/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/28/packaging-student-work-veronica-stark/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Packaging Student Work: Veronica Stark. Via Lovely Package ». Related PostsNo Related Post]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src='http://www.perezfox.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/belleella_packaging2.jpg' alt='Belle &#038; Ella' / width="450" height="330"></p>
<p><a href='http://lovelypackage.com/student-work-veronica-stark/'>Packaging Student Work: Veronica Stark. Via Lovely Package »</a>.</p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>No Related Post</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>FUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/15/fuse-conference-day-2-optimism/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/15/fuse-conference-day-2-optimism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[brands & branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the industry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[chicago]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conference]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fuse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[travel]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Day two in the city of the big shoulders. Following the symposium day at the FUSE conference, I am filled with a sense of optimism. The theme of the conference is Reclaim The Future. And, strangely, it seems we&#8217;re actually on our way. Cheryl Swanson, conference co-chair, managed to brilliantly illustrate what we&#8217;ve all been [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day two in the city of the big shoulders. Following the symposium day at the FUSE conference, I am filled with a sense of optimism.</p>
<p>The theme of the conference is Reclaim The Future. And, strangely, it seems we&#8217;re actually on our way. Cheryl Swanson, conference co-chair, managed to brilliantly illustrate what we&#8217;ve all been thinking about the status quo. 2009 was a year marked with financial shenanigans and recession thinking, high unemployment, celebrity scandals, nationwide recalls, and political drama so please, leave the past behind us.</p>
<p>Yesterday, we heard from representatives at some of the biggest global consumer brands. In quick succession we heard from folks at Lego, Starbucks, McDonald&#8217;s, and Mars, to name a few. The focus of those companies, of course, remains to make money, and in that regard there is indeed some optimism. Numbers are up, which means consumers have money again and with any luck, the past year+ will soon be quartered in memory — another annus horriblus.</p>
<p>There is also much positivity in the realm of sustainability. More than simply recycling, the new mandate is to make packaging and products that are lower-impact from the start, sourced from new materials and produced in new manufacturing techniques which seek to close that open loop of sustainability. It&#8217;s a massive challenge, but for once it feels like we might actually survive beyond the year 2012, and won&#8217;t drown under the weight of so many styrofoam cups. Recycling itself will only grow and more and more items which once could only be tossed, can now be recycled.</p>
<p>In talking directly with industry people, it seem that business is picking up, which in turn changes the labour relations within these companies. We, as an industry, are connecting more with students, and with one another. In hiring we&#8217;re seeking to be more human and embrace the sort of small business thinking that makes us generally more happy, even when working within a large, global corporation. And of course as the market picks up and jobs are created and filled, the unemployment rate will drop, taxes will come back to the government, and so forth and so forth.</p>
<p>Optimism, much like fear and dissent, spread virally. Communication tools are unfolding and evolving like never before, which helps us spread the virus of change. What we saw in Obama&#8217;s campaign is now being applied to the economy at large. Finally it seems we&#8217;re getting the message — yes we can.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m excited to hear today&#8217;s talks, which are longer and meatier and will vary in their format. I&#8217;m hoping to see the optimism in people, their new willingness to chat and exchange ideas and possibly make connections for business. Let&#8217;s hope the optimism endures.</p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/14/in-chicago/" title="In Chicago">In Chicago</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/16/talking-shop/" title="Talking Shop">Talking Shop</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/15/the-good-guys/" title="The Good Guys">The Good Guys</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/02/22/tropicana-says-undo-to-packaging-re-design/" title="Tropicana Says &#8220;Undo&#8221; to Packaging Re-Design">Tropicana Says &#8220;Undo&#8221; to Packaging Re-Design</a> (2)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Royal Burger</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/14/the-royal-burger/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/14/the-royal-burger/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[brands & branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[McDonald's]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[supply chain]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Close your eyes and think of McNuggets The other day I watched a great documentary series on the history of The Royal Navy called Empire of the Seas. Being a huge history nerd and Anglophile, I ate it up. And I was taken aback to hear about how the Navy was responsible for many of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/british%20navy.jpg" alt="The Royal Navy"><br /><em>Close your eyes and think of McNuggets</em></p>
<p>The other day I watched a great documentary series on the history of The Royal Navy called <a target="_blank" href="http://www.downarchive.com/movies/documentary/91483-bbc-empire-of-the-seas-how-the-navy-forged-the.html">Empire of the Seas</a>. Being a huge history nerd and Anglophile, I ate it up. And I was taken aback to hear about how the Navy was responsible for many of the pre-industrial innovations in the whole of Britain, including labour and economics. They pretty much created, by demand, the whole notion of supply chain logistics. Raw goods like lumber, canvas, grain, rope, chain, etc., were produced in quantities like never before — all to service the Navy.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/mcd_bigmac.jpg" alt="Big Mac global packaging" /><br /><em>McDonald&#8217;s global packaging system, by Boxer, 2008</em></p>
<p>And McDonald&#8217;s is pretty much the same thing. This dawned on my during Mark Carlson&#8217;s presentation at the FUSE Conference. Because of the global scale, McDonald&#8217;s requires gargantuan quantities of raw goods to operate. Obviously, beef, buns, and soda, and other things to eat, but also things like paper, straws, and napkins. When building locations, they&#8217;ve got to source tiles and ovens, and on the labor front, they innovated by bringing assembly-line-style practices to preparing food. For better or for worse, they introduced tactics that many other chains have copied.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/mcd_bag.jpg" alt="Bag, global packaging"><br /><em>McDonald&#8217;s global packaging system, by Boxer, 2008</em></p>
<p>We often underestimate the scale of a truly global brand. Think, for a second, about what a billion of anything truly is. Now realise that McDonald&#8217;s has to work on this scale every year, in many, many countries. Still think you&#8217;d want to take on a huge project like re-designing the global packaging system? What do you mean there&#8217;s no Japanese word for headache?</p>
<p>Whether or not we enjoy the food, I think we all have to admit that the global operations of McDonald&#8217;s and their global brand maintenance is an impressive endeavor. </p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/03/22/biodegradable-packaging-for-mcdonalds/" title="Biodegradable Packaging for McDonald&#8217;s?">Biodegradable Packaging for McDonald&#8217;s?</a> (0)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2008/12/13/mcdonalds-debuts-new-packaging/" title="McDonald&#8217;s Debuts New Packaging">McDonald&#8217;s Debuts New Packaging</a> (0)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/05/04/autentico-tequila-alacran/" title="Auténtico Tequila Alacrán">Auténtico Tequila Alacrán</a> (1)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2010/04/15/fuse-conference-day-2-optimism/" title="FUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism">FUSE Conference, day 2: Optimism</a> (1)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Adobe Previews CS5 Icons</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/03/30/adobe-previews-cs5-icons/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/03/30/adobe-previews-cs5-icons/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[brands & branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[computers & gadgets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the industry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[adobe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cs5]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[icons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[periodic table]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Adobe, being ever the forward-looking company, has been working on Creative Suite 5 from the moment CS4 hit shelves. Beta tests and feature previews have been sneaking out over the past few weeks, and recently we&#8217;ve been given a preview as to the icon system and desktop branding for CS5. Our preview comes from an [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/cs5_icons.jpg" alt="CS5 icons"></p>
<p>Adobe, being ever the forward-looking company, has been working on Creative Suite 5 from the moment <a target="_blank" href="http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2008/09/adobe-creative.html">CS4 hit shelves</a>. Beta tests and <a target="_blank" href="http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/tools/photoshops_contentaware_fill_tool_used_for_both_good_and_evil_156679.asp?c=rss">feature previews</a> have been sneaking out over the past few weeks, and recently we&#8217;ve been given a preview as to the icon system and desktop branding for CS5. Our preview comes from <a target="_blank" href="https://xd.adobe.com/#/featured/article/536">an article</a> in <a target="_blank" href="https://xd.adobe.com/#/home">Inspire</a>, one of Adobe&#8217;s own publications. (Don&#8217;t call it a blog, damn you.)</p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s talk about these alleged icons. <span id="more-1650"></span></p>
<p>As we can see, the CS3 and CS4 icons used the Periodic Table-inspired theme to create order and consistency across the [rather immense] product line.</p>
<blockquote><p>Under designer Ryan Hicks, a new system was born. Using color as a primary reference point and representing apps by a two-letter mnemonic, the Brand Team implemented a system that was both beautiful and functional. Users could easily distinguish one application from another at even the smallest sizes—a real challenge at times with the feathers and starfish icons of the early CS systems. At the time, the user community had mixed reactions, but over the years, the new system has proven to be immensely popular. We have watched with joy and amusement the appearance of countless imitators and fun surprises like hand-made <a target="_blank" href="http://mysuitestuff.com/">CS3 pillows.</a></p></blockquote>
<p>So are we departing from the trend? I, for one, wouldn&#8217;t mind simply putting a screened-back 5 in the square and calling it a day, but as we can see, there is a new trend developing. The article states how &#8220;[Adobe's] goal was to move beyond the monolithic expression of of the CS3 and CS4 systems and create a more dynamic language. We wanted to bring back inspirational and aspirational artistic qualities &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>As you might suspect, the above icons are not the final representations, so we&#8217;ll have to wait and see what develops.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts? Do you want to see a return to picto-style icons for each application? Or are you happy with the two-letter combinations that define the product title? How about becoming 3D and breaking the generally-flat, buttonesque manner of the CS3/4 icons?</p>
<p>Oh, now I&#8217;m all anxious and shit.</p>
<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/12/28/picturing-the-past-ten-years/" title="Picturing the Past Ten Years">Picturing the Past Ten Years</a> (0)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/10/28/wtf-wednesday-london-olympic-pictograms/" title="WTF Wednesday: London Olympic Pictograms">WTF Wednesday: London Olympic Pictograms</a> (0)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2009/09/17/twitter-updates-default-avatars/" title="Twitter Updates Default Avatars">Twitter Updates Default Avatars</a> (2)</li><li><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2008/09/19/amazon-leaks-adobe-cs4-packaging-features/" title="Amazon Leaks Adobe CS4 Packaging, Features">Amazon Leaks Adobe CS4 Packaging, Features</a> (2)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Ubuntu Cola, part II</title>
		<link>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/03/24/ubuntu-cola-part-ii/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perezfox.com/2010/03/24/ubuntu-cola-part-ii/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Prescott</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[brands & branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[computers & gadgets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[design: packaging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[the industry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[africa]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[cola]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ubuntu]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ubuntu cola]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perezfox.com/?p=1647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Years ago, I wrote about Ubuntu Cola, and how the grainy photo of a can made me wrinkle my nose in disgust, or at least confusion. But Ubuntu Cola has once again emerged on the blog scene, this time boasting more detail about their product and it&#8217;s packaging. Turns out my criticisms where unwarranted, because [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/ubuntu_cola2.jpg" alt="Ubuntu Cola"></p>
<p><a href="http://www.perezfox.com/2007/11/12/ubuntu-cola/">Years ago, I wrote</a> about <a target="_blank" href="http://ubuntu-trading.com/">Ubuntu Cola</a>, and how the grainy photo of a can made me wrinkle my nose in disgust, or at least confusion. But Ubuntu Cola has once again <a target="_blank" href="http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2010/03/ubuntu.html">emerged on the blog scene</a>, this time boasting more detail about their product and it&#8217;s packaging. Turns out my criticisms where unwarranted, because Ubuntu Cola actually has nothing to do with the Linux operating system — it&#8217;s a fair trade cola, based in Malawi, Africa, and just happens to have the same name.</p>
<p><img src="http://www.perezfox.com/images/logo_ubuntu.jpg" alt="Ubuntu logo"></p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.ubuntu.com/">Ubuntu</a>, the Linux OS, does have itself a new logo, as <a target="_blank" href="http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/ubuntus_circle_of_friends_gets_smaller.php">was featured on Brand New</a> a while back. A subtle shift forward, but welcome from my eyes.</p>
<p>The trouble with any open-source product is that branding is often overlooked as a frivolous expense. Hiring someone to look after the design and consistency of product seems like a luxury when you have engineers volunteering to build the thing in the first place, often doing so in their spare time.</p>
<p>But perhaps some designers could get together and create an improved look for that can of Ubuntu Cola. Perhaps indeed &#8230;</p>
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